Legislature(2017 - 2018)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/17/2017 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB69 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 69 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 55 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 17, 2017
1:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Coghill, Chair
Senator Mia Costello
Senator Kevin Meyer
Senator Pete Kelly
Senator Bill Wielechowski
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 69
"An Act relating to misconduct involving weapons in the fifth
degree; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 55
"An Act relating to criminal law and procedure; relating to
controlled substances; relating to sentencing; relating to the
period of probation; relating to revocation, termination,
suspension, cancellation, or restoration of a driver's license;
relating to parole; relating to the duties of the Department of
Corrections and the Department of Health and Social Services;
and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 69
SHORT TITLE: MISCONDUCT INVOLVING WEAPONS 5TH DEGREE
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) EGAN
02/24/17 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/24/17 (S) JUD, FIN
03/15/17 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/15/17 (S) -- MEETING CANCELED --
03/17/17 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
WITNESS REGISTER
SENATOR DENNIS EGAN
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 69.
JAMES DOOLEY, representing himself
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided supporting testimony for SB 69.
QUINLAN STEINER, Public Defender
Public Defender Agency
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Raised concerns with SB 69.
MAJOR JEFFREY LAUGHLIN, Deputy Director
Alaska State Troopers
Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 69.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:35:25 PM
CHAIR JOHN COGHILL called the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Costello, Wielechowski, Meyer, Kelly and
Chair Coghill.
SB 69-MISCONDUCT INVOLVING WEAPONS 5TH DEGREE
1:35:55 PM
CHAIR COGHILL announced the consideration of SB 69 and noted
that this is the first hearing. The intent is to introduce the
bill, take questions and public testimony and hold the bill for
further consideration.
1:36:58 PM
SENATOR DENNIS EGAN, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of SB 69,
said he introduced the legislation at the request of law
enforcement and as a matter of officer safety. He explained that
current law provides that an individual who has contact with the
police must inform the officer if they are carrying a firearm
concealed. However, there is no such obligation if the firearm
is concealed in an individual's vehicle and they are stopped by
law enforcement. The bill extends the language for carrying a
concealed firearm in a shoulder holster to include a firearm
concealed in a vehicle. He noted that the packets contain
information on how dangerous traffic stops can be for police and
troopers.
SENATOR EGAN emphasized that the bill does not change who can
exercise their constitutional right to carry a firearm, or when
or where they can exercise that right. "It just lets police know
when a firearm is part of the equation, so they can keep
themselves safe."
1:39:11 PM
CHAIR COGHILL opened public testimony.
1:41:01 PM
JAMES DOOLEY, representing himself, Juneau, Alaska, reviewed his
career in the U.S. Coast Guard as a federal law enforcement
officer, his service with the Juneau Police Department, and his
education that includes a master's degree in criminal justice
and an advanced police certificate from the Alaska Police
Standards Council. He shared that he likes to hunt and shoots
recreationally and is in no way anti-gun, but he is testifying
today to talk about a personal experience where a firearm was
suddenly introduced.
He recounted that the situation occurred inside a residence
where he and another officer went on a welfare check. The man
they were checking on was reported to be drunk, high, have
access to a firearm, and had threatened suicide. He invited the
officers inside and proceeded to pull a gun from behind his back
and wave it in the direction of both officers. Both officers
pulled their guns but were able to secure the situation without
injury to anyone. He said this is not the only incident where a
firearm has come out without warning. He offered his belief that
it makes for a much safer interaction for both officers and
citizens if disclosure is a matter of routine and the element of
surprise is eliminated.
1:44:46 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if an officer can lawfully ask if
there is a gun in the vehicle, and is there a punishment if the
person is found to have lied.
MR. DOOLEY replied it isn't a rote part of every traffic stop
but prudent officers probably would ask if they had reason to
believe there was a gun that wasn't disclosed.
CHAIR COGHILL talked about attending trooper training exercises
about when to shoot and when not to shoot. There was a video
series of different encounters where there was a split second to
decide whether deadly force is warranted. He spoke of the
importance of striking a balance between personal safety and the
power of the state.
He asked Officer Dooley his perspective on how Alaska's
concealed carry law is working.
MR. DOOLEY said there is some lack of awareness about the
prudence of disclosing a firearm anytime an individual has
contact with law enforcement. There are also many prudent gun
owners that disclose, and it adds no adrenalin to the contact.
1:50:54 PM
SENATOR COSTELLO asked how the bill would change his behavior on
a routine stop if he determined the driver was lying about being
in possession of a firearm.
MR. DOOLEY said the bill would not change an officer's search
authorities.
CHAIR COGHILL said the committee will consider an officer's
right to be safe while enforcing the law and an individual's
right to live peaceably without undue interference from the
state.
1:53:03 PM
SENATOR COSTELLO asked how this bill would affect a traffic stop
where a passenger with a concealed carry permit doesn't disclose
and the driver is unaware there is a gun in the vehicle.
CHAIR COGHILL redirected the question and asked what officers
are currently instructed to do when both the driver and a
passenger have a concealed carry permit.
MR. DOOLEY clarified that Alaska law treats concealed carry with
and without a permit the same. Both the driver and passenger
would be obliged to disclose if they have a gun on their person
and they have contact with law enforcement; the bill doesn't
change that. He demonstrated what he does as a private citizen
when he is contacted by law enforcement.
CHAIR COGHILL thanked Officer Dooley for taking personal time to
testify.
1:56:11 PM
QUINLAN STEINER, Public Defender, Public Defender Agency, said
the primary concern with SB 69 relates to a lack of notice to
the public that an affirmative duty exists. That raises
practical as well as constitutional concerns.
The constitutional concern relates to the lack of notice. He
explained that the constitution generally prohibits
criminalizing a duty to act when there hasn't been notice. In
this case there is essentially no notice to the public that this
duty exists. He mentioned the concealed carry permit law, its
requirements and affirmative duties and the fact that it raised
a constitutional question that hasn't been litigated or
addressed by the appellate courts in the state.
MR. STEINER said the bill also raises a Fifth Amendment question
if someone is required to make a disclosure that in and of
itself might be an admission of a crime. He said that question
exists with the current statute and isn't raised specifically by
this amendment, but it exists. He said the practical concern
related to this notice is that the public doesn't know, and
otherwise law-abiding citizens may unknowingly commit a crime.
That won't effectuate the policy that's at issue, which is to
have the existence of a weapon made known to ensure the safety
of the situation.
He suggested potential fixes: require the officer to ask the
person if they have a weapon in the vehicle and notify them of
their obligation to disclose; write such obligations into
drivers' licenses; and make it a violation not to disclose. He
noted that the prohibition on requiring affirmative action isn't
implicated in a violation; it's implicated in criminal statutes.
1:59:38 PM
CHAIR COGHILL asked if an officer who comes to the door without
a warrant has the right to ask an individual if there are
firearms in the house.
MR. STEINER said there is no prohibition about asking and the
individual is free to answer as they see fit. However, the
requirement in existing statute regarding weapons on your person
raises the issue about criminal liability for failure to respond
appropriately.
CHAIR COGHILL clarified that the bill is restricted to concealed
carry in a vehicle.
MR. STEINER agreed and added that the proposed amendment mirrors
existing statute regarding concealed on your person. He noted
that the concealed weapons permit law that was repealed required
disclosure when interacting with a police officer. That left
open the question about whether the current statute is
constitutional.
CHAIR COGHILL asked if the Fifth Amendment right he mentioned
was the right not to incriminate oneself.
MR. STEINER answered yes. If a person is required to disclose
and they are intoxicated they would essentially be admitting to
a crime. He cited another example of a youth in possession of a
concealed weapon. The individuals would be able to contest the
charge and investigation based on Fifth Amendment grounds.
2:02:48 PM
CHAIR COGHILL asked about the right of a police officer to
defend him/herself when they ask someone if they have a weapon.
MR. STEINER replied the policy at issue makes sense because it
promotes public safety. Letting people know they're obligated to
answer the question and allow the officer to secure the weapon
would promote that policy.
SENATOR COSTELLO asked for examples of misconduct involving a
weapon in the fifth degree.
MR. STEINER cited the following examples of class B misdemeanor
misconduct: failure upon initial contact to inform a police
officer you are carrying a deadly weapon concealed on your
person; concealing a weapon on your person within somebody's
residence without their express permission; possessing a loaded
firearm in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold; and an
un-emancipated minor under age 16 carrying a concealed firearm
on their person.
2:05:38 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there is an existing prohibition
against a police officer asking about the presence of a firearm
during a traffic stop.
MR. STEINER replied he's not aware of a prohibition and believes
it happens frequently.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if lying to a police officer about
having a firearm under the car seat carries a penalty.
MR. STEINER offered to follow up after doing some research.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he has any Fourth Amendment
concerns with the provision that allows a police officer to
secure a firearm.
MR. STEINER said he intends to look at that further, but it
potentially presents issues if in the process of securing the
weapon the officer sees contraband that may cause a further
investigation.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked: 1) if the interior of a vehicle
would include the trunk; and 2) if the obligation to disclose a
weapon in a vehicle extends to a passenger.
MR. STEINER said he doesn't believe the interior of a vehicle
would include the trunk, just what is reachable within the
vehicle. The duty to disclose arguably would apply to a
passenger, but it's unclear in the statute.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said he assumes it would be a knowing
standard.
MR. STEINER confirmed the statute requires a knowing mens rea.
Honest forgetfulness would probably qualify as knowingly, but it
could be used as a defense.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if the court defines "immediately
inform the peace officer" as a reasonable standard.
MR. STEINER said he believes it's a reasonable standard under
the circumstances. It's not a specific timeframe.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how a court might interpret the
phrase.
MR. STEINER opined that it would be that notification about a
weapon in the car would be one of the first things you did after
being contacted. Notifying an officer after he/she returned to
their vehicle and then came back would likely be a violation of
the statute.
CHAIR COGHILL said his interpretation is first contact.
2:12:33 PM
MAJOR JEFF LAUGHLIN, Deputy Director, Alaska State Troopers,
Department of Public Safety (DPS), introduced himself and
offered to answer questions.
CHAIR COGHILL asked what the procedure is under existing law if
there is more than one person in the vehicle and one of them
fails to disclose.
MR. LAUGHLIN responded that the troopers support the bill
because under existing law there is not a duty to disclose the
presence of a firearm in a vehicle unless it is concealed on the
driver's person or the passenger's person.
CHAIR COGHILL asked if it would be clarifying to stipulate a
firearm in a vehicle that is within reach as opposed to within
the interior of a vehicle.
MR. LAUGHLIN said it could be helpful to the bill. He advised
that in other areas of the law the terminology generally used by
law enforcement is "within lunge, reach, or grasp." He agreed
with earlier testimony that the current language wouldn't apply
to the trunk.
CHAIR COGHILL asked if the current protocol is to ask on initial
contact if there is a firearm in the vehicle or on the person.
MR. LAUGHLIN said that as a general rule he won't ask about
firearms or anything else in a vehicle unless he has a
reasonable suspicion that something is going on.
2:18:06 PM
CHAIR COGHILL held SB 69 in committee for further consideration
with public testimony open.
2:19:22 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Coghill adjourned the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting at 2:19 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|